Groover Chemicals and Scat Machines

Chemicals and Scat Machines

What are the recommended pattern and  quantities of use for Clorox 2 in a typical rocket box-sized groover?

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Well, I wouldn't use Clorox 2, I don't believe it works all that well to
control the odor, I instead prefer the floral scented CampaChem RV
holding tank deodorizer that's sold in little packets in your local wal
mart. One initially in the groover, and 1 when it's 1/2 full.

I have heard tale of people pouring water over the top of a finished groover and then duck taping it which I think is standard.  Anybody use this method?    I've heard it makes it easier to empty as well as keep the smell down.  I thought Moki did it.

Brady Black

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I think it a mistake to start with a container that has no water in it.  The blue camper stuff works fine, provided a 1/2 gallon of water or so is mixed with it before first use.  You're right, another bag when half full keeps things manageable, provided contents are still liquid and getting mixed (rapids).  Upon screwing up and letting it become more solid, a little shake of lime on top after each use keeps the smell down, as does clorox2.  One poster mentioned a $70 product.  Outrageous money and not necessary.  It ain't Phd chemistry.  Same old rule applies, no #1 in the #2 box.

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One rocket box = 2 people = 18 days (this is conservative).  Simple math from there.  Been using the same rocket box for 12 years, no troubles.  As a precaution against unintended evacuation of the unit,  side latches are secured with a strap all the way around to hold them down.  Side note:  Box(s) never comes off the boat (I travel with close friends), which means one less thing to load/unload.  No need for a "day use" box either

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Maybe I'll treat myself to a new box next time, tho I would miss all the nice decals on the existing one.  When I get a sticker in the mail, I put it on the Portable Unit.

Bruce

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I've always topped off my groovers with water. And I've always added enough water during use to facilitate interaction of the blue goo with the brown poo. Sometimes I have even used -- perish the thought -- urine to form the in-process liquid component.

By topping off the tank there will be less gas formed in a tiny headspace when it burps. Therefore there will be less gas smell from the burp.  That is, unless the burp entrains liquids from the topping off. You take your chances in that regard. But there should be no burps at all if you've totally killed all the bacterial activity (as in Chlorox) or the bacteria have used up all the available poo calories (pretty unlikely on a two-week trip).

In any case I leave enough headspace to add more poison if needed. The nose should tell you when a box needs more work after closing.

dy

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I have never had any problem with the groover becoming overly smelly. We have always used the basic proceedure as outlined by the NPS , which I think is the same as what PRO suggested to us the 2 times I have used PRO.

We used to use lime before chlorox 2 and it worked well also.  After
every poop very lightly sprinkle a small amount on the top. When
prepareing the groover for packing and travel each morning I use a small stick to compact and evenly redistribute the poop throughout the can..Using the TP in the can along  with the stick as a probe. (Hence the expression "the sh...y end of the stick").  As a result the standard rocket box can hold a lot more stuff than you might imagine.  As we have never had to worry about having enough space in the can, we never use the riser. When the can gets close to full and almost too heavy to carry, compact one more final time sprinkle chlorox 2 a little more liberally than before and close it up for the last time.

Then keep it cool, and out of the sun. Never had a problem with a full can.  I hate the smell of the chemicals, flowery or otherwise far more than the smell of poop bothers me.

Wally Rist

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Hi Brady,

I can see adding water to get a slurry effect going and make it easier to dump the effluent.  But with air space and live bacteria in there, you'd have to burp it, and the duct tape would be a hindrance to that.

So I was thinking that if you intended to duct tape it, you'd want to leave as little air as possible inside.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips

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I never fill the rocket box to the top. Just enough to make the
you-know-what a bit more viscous. Preventing it from becoming a solid mass is all I'm trying to achieve.

Never been that far along Brady. A little water all along, makes things work better. Duct tape probably wouldn't do a lot.

I have heard tale of people pouring water over the top of a finished
groover and then duck taping it which I think is standard.  Anybody use this method? I've heard it makes it easier to empty as well as keep the smell down.  I thought Moki did it.

Brady Black

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I pour in water when the can is full and no longer usable and it does
seem to make it easier to clean. Makes it pretty heavy though. Since it is no longer used that is only a problem once. Usually do the water fill as I put it on a raft for the last time.

No duct tape used and no spills so far. Probably means we don't have leaky seals on the rocket boxes, eliminating lots of foul smelling burping.

Well, ya got to have a little in there to make the slurry <GRIN>, I'll
agree on your calculations though, they are spot on with what I've
used..

Marshall

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I have used Groover Tamer on a 21-day fall trip and was very happy with it.  Yes, it is more expensive, but it is advertised as being environmentally safe. They had a package for an 18-day trip that cost $70 - 75 as I recall - when divided among all trip members, you aren't talking about much $$.  Much better than throwing more chemicals into the water system, don't you think?

Paul

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Related to this subject --- where near Diamond Creek or South Cove are the nearest SCAT stations? Or is there a SCAT station at South Cove?

I took out there last June, but we only had one partial groover, as the part of the group that took out at Diamond took the Grand groovers with them.  We only had six people for five days.

I can highly recommend Groover Tamer.

Jay Meierdierck

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While not specific to the Grand, this extract from the BLM's instructions for the Rogue River may be instructive.

Known SCAT Machine compatible toilet systems and deodorizers 

Toilets

* 20 mm Ammunition Cans - 50 user days

* 5 Gallon Plastic Bucket - 40 user days

* Johnny Partner - 50-60 user days

* The SCAT Machine Toilet

* The SCAT Packer - 40 user days

* Eco-Safe Toilet Systems - 50 user days (ammo box), 20 user days (boom box)

Deodorizers

* Pine-Sol

* First Round Knock Out

* Bio-Balance RM-41

* RTB 780

I've also found that spraying Pam inside the groover container helps with cleanout, particularly the areas where "residue" might adhere.

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That is not a bad idea.  Especially if you live in an unincorporated
community with septic systems like I do.  When I get home I just pop the top of my septic system and in it goes.  With hose in hand to clean out the boxes I can clean 4-6 boxes in a few minutes.

Makes something trivial out of what can be complex if the scat machine is not working properly.  Especially if the you-know-what has not turned to cement.

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John Lupo introduced me to the Flagstaff treatment plant after one GC trip.  Apparently if you are a resident using city services you can take the cans out there and dump them.  Other than the driving time to and from, the dumping took very little time.

Never used the Meadview scat machine but we've used the one on the Main Salmon road.  It was messy, contaminated the strap needed to hold the box in place, and even ourselves a bit.  That machine has failed during use.  Fortunately the maintanence guy was there when it failed or we would have been leaving them an embedded rocket box.  The best river system I've seen is the one at Dinosaur.  They have a hole about the same size as the top of my septic system that you dump the rocket boxes into and a hose to wash them out.  Quick and not too messy.  Cleanup sink right beside it.

Persigo Wash Wastewater Treatment plant on River Road.
It is west of where I-70 crosses Hiway 50 & 6. River Road is just
south of the track.  I cross the tracks just west of where Western Slope Ford is, then go west.  It's less than a mile from there.  I think they are open from about 7:30 AM to 5:00 PM.  I'm not sure about weekends. Just east of the treatment plant gate is a gate that will be open and says no trespassing.  That's where you dump.  Ignore the sign.  It's not intended for people using the dump.  It's an open comcrete pit, with good water pressure, but the water is NOT drinkable.

Gary

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For those in the Grand Junction area, if you have anything that resembles standard RV fittings on your groover tanks, and a hose (such as comes with the Eco-safe), you can dump them for free at the state-operated rest station in Fruita.  It's on the southeast side of the highway, and is fairly well marked on the Interstate and after you get off on the ramps.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips

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I have found a product that we have been using for years.  It has a cherry odor and liquefies the contents of the box.  The BLM has been using the same product at there outhouses for some time.   The rocket box takes one packet a trip. To read more on this and other similar products.

http://www.microbialogic.com/portable_toilets_holding_tanks/rtb_780.htm

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